I think David Davis should apologise, and set this call for a referendum as a way of rectifying a past wrong. You call him a hypocrite for changing his mind, yet remain a member of a party who hasn’t called for a referendum at the last two opportunities – and in this case it is entirely up to them. Davis has at least accepted his mistake and is making an attempt to rectify it.

There has only ever been one full-UK referendum, so to say that “Britain NEVER has referendums under the Tories! Such contempt for the people” is hardly an advert for Labour who have held only one. And they didn’t call for one over Maastricht, and refused to give one over the Reform Treaty. That is hardly the record of a party which trusts and loves the people.

You may think it’s just posturing, but I disagree. And I’m not going to bother even trying to talk you around, since you won’t ever accept it. Even if you think it’s just posturing, at the very least it is better than refusing to hold one – better than the Tories did in 1992 and better than Labour is doing now.

As for your last point… Britain NEVER has referendums under the Tories! Such contempt for the people. My whole point here is the Tories don’t want a referendum, and if they were in power there wouldn’t be a referendum… that is the lesson of history. What they are doing is posturing.

Because they made a mistake once doesn’t mean that they can’t – or shouldn’t – attempt to rectify it now. I think they should acknowledge that they made a mistake with that – would that appease you at all Bob?

“As for your final point, does calling for a referendum rather than Parliament… because you want to preserve… errm, parliamentary democracy, not strike you as absurd?”

Not at all – there are some things that Parliament does not have the authority to do. This is one of them. Especially when the majority of members were elected on a manifesto that said there would be a referendum on this issue.

We don’t – and shouldn’t – have referendums very often in Britain, but this is one of the few occasions when one is truly warranted.

But Hague, Howard, and particularly the loathsome David Davis, who as a Tory whip, actually twisted the arms of Tory MPs to vote for Maastricht were directly involved in the decision. The Tory rebels were jostled, spat upon and verbally abused by their own side for having the balls to vote against, and now to see the two-faced toady get Davis calling for a referendum ought to make every single Tory supporter sick to their stomachs.

Pure opportunism, no principles whatsoever.

As for your final point, does calling for a referendum rather than Parliament… because you want to preserve… errm, parliamentary democracy, not strike you as absurd?

But as much as I condemn them for not calling for a referendum then, I applaud them for calling one now. Now they are in charge and have realised the the mistakes they have made in the past and are making amends.

One the same level, do you condemn every member of the Labour front bench who did not call for a referendum in 1992? You should. And you should also utterly condemn Gordon Brown, his Cabinet, his government, and every Labour MP who does not publicly call for a referendum on this “Reform Treaty”? If you feel so strongly that there should be a referendum on this issue, why do you not do everything in YOUR power against it now – up to and including considering resigning as a Labour councillor? If you’re not willing to do anything like that are you not at least as hypocritical as you say Cameron, Hague, Davis et al are? Let me see YOU put your money where your mouth is. Then I might give YOU some credibility.

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This “Reform Treaty”, otherwise referred to as the “Constitutional Treaty” [or even just "the Constitution"] takes everything a step further than Maastricht. It isn’t just another treaty, but a step towards a EU Constitution. The so-called “red lines” will soon be eroded away, drawn as they are in chalk rather than permanent marker. Unlike Maastricht, THIS treaty leaves the door open for more integration by stealth, with no acquiescence from even the government, let alone the people.

What IT may grant in itself may not be so much, but what it ALLOWS FOR in the future is far, far greater.

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But the Treaty itself, whatever you may think of it, is less important than the people of Britain actually having the chance to vote on it. So long as they do, whatever the outcome, it is the choice of the British PEOPLE, not the government or even parliament alone.

So, go on, what exactly is it in the current Reform Treaty that you find so unacceptable? Please tell.

By the way, Labour didn’t call for a referendum on Maastricht, although I think they should have done, and they would have won it and defeated Major, so they can’t be accused of bottling it becvause they didn’t think they could win.

You ain’t 7 now, so come on, let’s have a posting about the Tory hypocrites… then I’ll give you some credibility.